Jayson Tatum appeared on JJ Redick’s “The Old Man and the Three” podcast, sharing perhaps his most enlightening comments in a very long time. Here are some of the things he said in the show, and what they might mean for Tatum and the Celtics.
On the struggle of the past two seasons after so much early success:
“This, especially the beginning of season, has been the toughest up and down, we would go up to games above .500 and go down to games. And I remember my first year we won 18 games in a row, and my second year, we were supposed to have the most talented team, and my third year, I went back to the conference finals. I was spoiled. I thought this was how it was supposed to be every year. And I think a little bit last year, but especially this year, it was kind of the first time I was like, alright, this is the other side of NBA. It was like, you struggling a little bit and trying to figure it out and it’s not always happy days coming into practice. Everybody's on edge a little bit and frustrated.”
It can really sting when reality slaps you in the face. This is actually a running theme from Tatum throughout all of this. Now in his fifth season, Tatum is coming to realize that certain things aren’t a given.
It might seem obvious to us that each year is its own entity, but the egos of the best players in the world make them think they are impervious to these rules. Frankly, I don’t blame them, because their talent has made them impervious to rules for most of their lives.
Tatum’s entire basketball journey has been about him basically being better than anyone else on the floor. Then he walked into the NBA and the wins just kept on rolling in, why would he think things would be different now?
This is a valuable lesson for Tatum, and by extension, Jaylen Brown. Having to work harder for their wins and adjust to a new coach who calls them out from time to time isn’t such a bad thing.
On a similar note…
On the early success, and wishing he could have handled it differently:
“My first year for sure (I took it for granted). Because, you know, you're a rookie, you don't know any better. I'm on the Celtics and we got Kyrie Irving and (Al Horford) and JB and Marcus Morris and Terry (Rozier), Gordon (Hayward), but he got hurt. I think this is just going to last forever and we're going to win a championship because we have 17. Like, I just I thought that was normal. I thought this was how it was supposed to be. So looking back on it, I didn't, I guess, cherish it as I probably should have. But at the same time, how could I? I didn't know any better.”
…
“And then the bubble year, my third year, when we lost to the Heat, we were winning every game. We lost in overtime in Game 1. We was up 14, I think, in the third quarter, Game 2. We win game three. We gave up a lead in Game 4. In Game 6 we kind of ran out of gas. But like, I think you have to, when you're in those moments, when you when you are that close, you really have to hone in … you got to think like this might be my last chance. And I think, you know, I was 21 at the time, and I remember when we lost, I was pissed because I felt like we could have and should have beat them. The Heat were a really good team, but there was a part of me that was like, I got 15 more years. And it's like, I blinked and it’s year five. And it's like, Ah, this shit goes a little faster than I thought.”
Now Tatum is speaking my language as an old person. Shit, indeed, goes a little faster than we all think, Jayson.
I’ve always thought life in the NBA is a lot like normal life, just really compressed. After a few years of learning to run and testing boundaries, player can walk around with that feeling of invincibility for a while before realizing later that they might not be able to do everything themselves.
I’ll give Tatum a lot of credit here for hitting the “life is fleeting I need to enjoy every moment” stage a lot earlier than most. It makes me think he’s getting closer to being the guy he needs to be to lead a team to the Finals. Usually it’s a guy closer to his 30’s making sure everyone knows what it’s like to miss opportunities. Tatum isn’t even 24 yet.
The real sign of maturity was this admission about how the 2019 season got derailed:
“We were the most talented team in the NBA. And I believe that obviously, even with Golden State. I think we split with them, one and one, that year because we only play them twice. And that was the year that KD got hurt and Klay Thompson got hurt, and the Raptors went to the championship. Obviously, they had Kawhi and he played amazing. But like, for whatever reason, that bothers me that we couldn't figure it out, because I know we had more than enough talent.”
…
“It was a combination of you know, Kyrie and Gordon coming back. Obviously we know what Ky is capable of, but Gordon was coming off All-Star the year before and was and still is a very, very good player. But then you have myself and JB and Terry that, naturally, we wanted more. We were young and we know what we just accomplished and how close we got, and we wanted more. We wanted to be, you know, the guys. And everybody was, I think, a little resistant of -- instead of like, no, we’re playing for the same goal, we're all going to get paid, we're all going to be All-Stars or whatever. And I think life would just be better if we all went like we want a championship. And I think everybody played a part in that. I know I did for sure. I know, as bad as I wanted to win, I want it to be -- alright, we all knew Ky was the best player, but I want it to be number two. And I take responsibility for some of those things. But just looking back on it, especially the Warriors not even being full strength in the championship, you can't help but think things like that could have been us.”
This was the year Irving railed on the young guys for not knowing how to win, which was part of what caused a rift in the locker room.
I have said since that season, and this quote is basically confirmation, that the success of the 2018 team might have been the worst thing that could have happened to that group. Tatum, Brown, and Rozier all went to the Eastern Conference Finals without Irving and Hayward, and then those guys came in and the young guys were basically told to step back and fall in line behind Kyrie.
Add to that the Hayward injury and things really got messy. Hayward’s second surgery in June of 2018 took away a full summer of working out and playing 5-on-5, which meant the Celtics needed to use the regular season as a bit of rehab for Hayward.
He was obviously not ready to play, and Rozier was better at the time, but Boston’s only chance at making any noise was going to be getting Hayward healthy and ready by the playoffs. The only way to do it was to play him.
Rozier was especially upset, which is why he burned his Boston bridges the instant the season ended. But Tatum and Brown were in that mix as well, and Tatum jockeying to be the second option shows how the priorities of younger players can be so out of whack.
Here’s one really important timeline that people need to understand about young players in the NBA: The first thing they're trying to prove is that they belong in the league. The second thing they're trying to do is earn a big contract. Winning only takes precedence after those first two things are accomplished.
This is why young teams (a) need good vets and (b) have a hard time sustaining success. Just look at the Atlanta Hawks. They took winning for granted and guys are whining about their roles. Young stud players almost always feel like they can do things their own way and win. Few do.
Again, it’s important for Tatum to admit that his motivations were corrupt and that it cost the team a golden opportunity for a championship run. Lessons like that are important. Now let’s see how they're applied.
On people wanting to split him and Jaylen Brown:
“There are a handful of guys that could go from any team and be who they are. But there's a majority of guys that I think the right situation brings out the best in them. And JB, he was a rookie then, and they had a lot of veteran guys his first year, so he didn't get as much opportunity. And that's what I credit his slower start to, but he's one of the most hardworking guys that I know. And I think the best thing for his career and mine is being on the same team and relatively same age and position and pushing each other. Just every day in the games and in practice working out together. I think that's been very beneficial for both of us.”
…
“We asked each other like, do you want to be here? And we both was like, yeah. He was like, bro, I don't understand. And I was like, man, you really think about it, we've had way more success together, than this year and what we didn't accomplish last year. JB has been in three Conference Finals, I’ve been in two. And I think we're both still very far from our prime. And I think what people don't understand is, it’s like alright, if you want to break us up, the grass is not always greener. Like, there's not a lot of guys in NBA like JB. Or if you want to get rid of me, like, you know, not to toot my own horn, but I think I'm one of the best players. So I couldn't imagine why you wouldn't want to have two of best players that are under 25 on your team. And, yeah, there's certain rough patches throughout a season, but we've won way more games together than we’ve lost.”
I’ll keep this one short. Any suggestions that Brown or Tatum had to be traded were, are, and will be very, very wrong. The notion that they can’t play together has been ridiculous from the start.
I’ll acknowledge that they haven't always been the most fluid together, they are two dynamic wings who are the absolute prototype for what every team in the NBA is looking for. Most teams in the NBA would like 11 guys in the Brown/Tatum mold, two point guards, and two bigs on their 15 man roster.
They have said multiple times that they want to be here. They're getting better at it. I’m with Tatum here. It never made sense.
On getting called out by Marcus Smart earlier in the season…
“I think what you have to understand, I think with being in the NBA, is especially sometimes after, you know, we had just blown an 18 point lead or something to Chicago. This is the beginning of the season, we probably like two and five, everybody's frustrated. We’re all on edge a little bit. So when I seen it, I wasn't angry, I wasn't mad or anything. I just waited till the next day. And I saw Smart at the facility and we sat down and talked. And I think it was a great talk, actually. We'd had some time to sleep, the adrenaline was gone from the game. And he apologized for what he said, and that was something he shouldn't have said in the media and that they got his words mixed up or whatever, and I didn't take offense. I started off by saying, listen, bro, I'm not perfect. I make mistakes. I've still got a long way to go from where I'm trying to get to. But I think we ended the conversation on ‘we in this together, we all are on the same team, and we trying to figure it out.’ And obviously saying certain things like that in the media doesn't help anybody's case because obviously it's all they talked about for the next week or so, when they was referring to Celtics. But it wasn’t the end of the world. No harm, no foul, and we're past it.”
Smart’s an emotional guy, and talking after that loss did him no favors because that was a baaaad one.
Afterwards, the team was pretty united in the notion that it should have been kept out of the media, but it didn’t mean Smart was wrong. Tatum had a good point about how those comments fueled the narrative at the time. Hell, it’s still brought up from time to time.
Smart had a good point to make and, as we’re seeing over the past few weeks, the Jays are both moving the ball a lot better. Going through things like this makes a team stronger.
You can watch the entire podcast with Jayson Tatum here: