I know many of our members don't live to watch videos or listen to podcasts so I like to provide a transcript when we have a significant guest, and last week we had one in NFL Films senior producer Greg Cosell. We had our annual conversation about the Patriots' draft picks that he's watched (not all of them), but we also got into Mike Vrabel and the free agent additions because Greg has been doing work for years on the Titans and Eagles. Enjoy Part 2:
Continuing on Henderson for a moment, can't wait to see him on the field because really you're just looking for traits when you see the player in person for the first time. I remember being really underwhelmed by Sony Michel in rookie camp for a first-round back. I didn't see anything special, and that pretty much held. I think I'm going to see something special in Henderson when I get a chance to see him.
Well, obviously you probably saw some of his tape, and he can take it to the house. There's no issue with his explosiveness.
Kyle Williams?
Williams was a fascinating ... I watched him very early in the process, because I know some people at Washington State. He wasn't a household name. So someone told me about him early, and I watched him. It's interesting. I felt the one thing that I wasn't certain of, and I know he ran a 4.4 and I think a lot of people automatically see that, you know, 'Oh, this guy can run.' The question I had was whether he can be a true vertical dimension at the next level, meaning the NFL. And I wasn't certain. I think he's got great lateral quickness, great burst with the ball in his hands. You want to get him the ball. You want to use him in a way where he has free access off the line of scrimmage. He's not a big guy. I think that if he can be a vertical dimension, then obviously he becomes a totally different player. And I'm sure they think he can be or they wouldn't have drafted him where they did. And like I said, I didn't feel like, 'Oh, he couldn't be,' but I wasn't certain. But to me, you want to get the ball in this guy's hands, whether it's the screen game, whether it's short passes, jet sweeps, this is the kind of guy you want to get the ball in his hands. And if he can truly end up being a vertical dimension, then I think he can be a really valuable piece of a receiving corps. I mean, he's not a wide receiver 1 in a strict sense, but if he can get over the top of defenses, then it changes a lot of things.
Did you have a comp for him? I saw some Greg Jennings but an NFL GM told me Tyler Lockett.
Oh, interesting. Well, you know, it's funny, because when you mentioned a comp, because, you know, like, again, I didn't necessarily, I didn't know what he was going to get drafted, because I probably did him before the combine. I thought that if he could be a vertical dimension, I kind of saw like a Marvin Mims comparison (63rd overall pick of Broncos in 2023 - been known for being a returner more than a receiver in two seasons). Now, the Patriots would certainly hope that he's much more of a volume receiver than Mims. Although Mims was drafted reasonably high. So, yeah, that was the way I thought of him, you know. And again, these comparisons, as you know Greg, are not apples to apples. They're just, you know, thoughts pop into your head. It's not, 'oh, he's exactly that guy,' you know. And I hope people don't take it that way, because that's not the way I think about it when a name pops into my head, yeah,
I don't care where teams draft players - especially in this case because the Patriots had 12 hours to settle on the player or if they wanted to trade down - but most draft pundits thought this was a little early for Craig Woodson. Why do you think the Patriots took him?
Well, I really liked his tape, so I can only go by how I felt watching his tape. It's odd that the University of California had three guys in the back end this year that were drafted and that were definitely quality prospects. Wooden's a big kid. He runs well, his athletic testing was really good. He's smooth. He's fluid. See this is a Vrabel guy because his game, he played with competitive toughness. There's a physical component to his game. He played downhill in the run game, really, really well. He saw things really clearly. He had a quick trigger. I mean, this guy, you watch his tape, and you don't have to wait long to see Woodson where he is. Now, I think he's better playing forward than backward. But hey, you know that's okay. They probably see a way to deploy him in the context of specific defenses. Don't forget, he's a fourth-round pick, Greg. You know this. You know people automatically assume, 'Oh, this guy. Well, I don't know what you're going to be.' Well, he's a he's a fourth-round pick, you know. So if he turns out to be a guy that plays every snap, that's great. But if he turns out to be a guy that plays 25 snaps, you know what, that's great too, because he's a fourth-round pick. So I really liked watching him. Like I said, you did not have to wait long to know where Craig Woodson was when you watch Cal tape. So you know, he was a good tackler downhill. I thought, again, I never know who guys are going to draft. When teams draft, I go, okay, they drafted him. I don't try to figure it out. But I think he's a really intriguing prospect, and I think he's going to play. And, you know, again, he's a rookie, so you don't know what's going to happen, but I think he's going to play in the league, and he's going to play important snaps. That could be 12 snaps a game. If a team, let's say, plays dime as they're on third down for the coach, those 12 snaps a dime are really important. I mean, it's, that's the way it works so, you know, but I like Woodson. I like this tape.
Ryan Cowden brought up Kevin Byard - not as a comparison - when I asked about Woodson possibly being kind of a reach.
Well, it's funny because here in my transition, because what I do is strengths, weaknesses, transition. My final line that I typed because I watched six games, I said my sense breaking down Woodson's tape is that he can develop into a starting safety in a defense that features quarters as a foundation, where his trigger and physicality in the run game can be maximized, and his limitations, both as a man coverage and deep safety, can be minimized. And that's why it's a fourth-round pick, Greg, because he does have some limitations, but what he's good at, he's really good at,
Going to group Josh Farmer and Bradyn Swinson together because universally these two were regarded as steals, if Woodson was a reach.
Well, I can only tell you what I think, and I loved them both, particularly Swinson. I can tell you right now, an no one knows what's going to happen in the future, okay, no one knows. And a lot of times when you draft guys, you're drafting traits and you're drafting what you think they can be down the road. And then I spoke to someone. I'm about to say something that'll seem like it's a bold, controversial statement, but I spoke to someone who agreed with me. I thought Swinson's college tape - tape now, not what might happen three years down the road. I thought Swinson's college tape was better than James Pearce's college tape (taken 26th by Falcons). And now I think that I really liked him a lot, and I just again, I was surprised he was drafted where he was. I thought he was better than that, and only time will tell. I thought he really understood how to fire and strike with his hands, with really precise timing and placement, because there's a spot you want to hit with your hands when you you know, everybody's taught that it's just inside the shoulder blade, because there's certain spots where, like no one, nobody reacts. Think, think of it this way, and I learned this from an o-line coach years ago, no o lineman reacts by doing this.
That's not a normal reaction. So where they teach guys to hit is right in right there.
Because no one does this. That's just, you know, not normal. And Swinson was really, really good at that. He just understood that really well. I thought, you know, because he had such a great understanding of hand usage, and he had an array of moves, chops, one and two-handed swipes. He understood how to play off contact, which you have to do in the NFL. You don't run around people. You have to play off contact. I thought he showed a speed to power conversion element. I really liked his tape a lot. He has long arms. I mean, you know, these things matter. He has long arms. He's got a big wingspan. His 20-yard shuttle was phenomenal for a guy who's 6-4 and 255, I thought he was one of the better edge prospects in the draft class, quite honestly, Greg and and, like I said, I was surprised that he lasted until he did.
Farmer?
Farmer, I like a lot too. I think he's an ascending player. What I do a lot, and I'm actually doing it right now, is I try to watch about 100 guys who I'm pretty certain are going to be in next year's draft, you know, the following year's draft. So I watched Farmer last summer from 2023 and then, of course, I watched him again, his tape this year, I think that he's got really strong, heavy hands. He's got quick, active feet. Now, I don't want to say that he's Milton Williams exactly, but I think there's, I think he's sort of like Milton Williams Light at this point, and that he can improve to become that kind of player. Now, whether he does or not, there's, as you know, there's 10 variables that would go into that. But, you know, I think that he can develop into a pass rusher as he, you know, he gains experience as he gets coached. He's really strong. He's really strong. He's got ridiculously long arms. They're 35 inches. His wingspan is absurd. So, you know, I think that again, another guy like and all I can do, like I told you, is tell you how I evaluated these players. You know, they drafted guys for the most part that I really liked on tape. So to me, they had a really good draft. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.
You made a great point about you sort of see a theme running through the kind of guys they drafted. You can see the theme running through it, yeah?
I mean, look, history suggests that not everybody's going to make it. But people need to also understand that when you get to day three, you know, obviously teams are drafting guys they think can contribute. They're not just, you know, throwing crap against the wall and hoping it sticks. They obviously have reasons for what they do, but people have to understand that day three picks, they've got a little bit of an uphill battle. I really like Farmer's tape, I really like Swinson's tape, I really like Woodson's tape, but they're not automatics. They're day three players. Do I think Swinson and Farmer should have been drafted earlier? Yeah, I do. That's just my, as Billy Joel once said, my pointless point of view. But obviously they made it to day three, so that means that they've got a lot of work to do, one to make the team, and two to get meaningful snaps.
Thanks to Greg for his always valuable insight.