I know many of our members don't live to watch videos or listen to podcasts so I like to provide a transcript when we have a significant guest, and last week we had one in NFL Films senior producer Greg Cosell. We had our annual conversation about the Patriots' draft picks that he's watched (not all of them), but we also got into Mike Vrabel and the free agent additions because Greg has been doing work for years on the Titans and Eagles. Enjoy Part 1:
General impressions about what we might see out of Mike Vrabel's defensive scheme?
When you look at Nashville, which I obviously see Tennessee all the time, I think it was a combination, probably, of Vrabel and Shane Bowen, who believed in a lot of things that that the Titans did a lot of what we call sim (simulated) pressures, which are four man pass rush, where a defensive lineman drops out and you actually rush a linebacker or DB as the fourth rusher. So I think it was Shane Bowen quite a bit as well, that had a lot to do with that. But you're essentially dealing with what I would call a five-two front. I guess some call it a three-four. To me, it really a five-two because you have five on the line of scrimmage. You've got two stack backers. And, you know, I think that's sort of foundationally how they play. And then, of course, when you get to your pure pass situations, you get the four-man rush, and you get, you know, different pressure concepts. But what they did in free agency and the draft as well, I think it speaks to what they're trying to get done within the context of a five-two base. And then how do you take some of those players and put them into your pass rush front? And I think there's a couple of players that clearly fit that. Yeah,
Would you say this is an aggressive defense or do you think Vrabel tries to middle pressure with not giving up big plays?
I would say that's the approach. I think they're selectively aggressive. You know, it's not like, let's say, an old Rex Ryan defense, where you're just coming after the quarterback, I think it's selective aggression. I think you'll see a lot of different coverage looks. You know, they actually have a lot of veteran players on the back end. I mean, obviously Gonzalez is going into his third season. He's not a veteran although I think he's going to be a terrific, terrific player. But they've got a lot of veteran players who can handle a lot of volume on the back end.
They signed Carlton Davis, who's been in the league, and don't forget, he played in Tampa, where Todd Bowles was very aggressive with pressure concepts. So he's used to different kinds of coverages that result from pressure. So I think there's a lot they have to work with. They signed veteran players. I mean, Robert Spillane has been in multiple systems. I think he's a really good player, by the way. He was in Pittsburgh where they couldn't get him off the field. They kept drafting guys, and they couldn't get him off the field. He ended up playing in their nickel and dime, and the same thing happened with the Raiders. So you're dealing with guys that have been through a lot of different coaches, a lot of different schemes. They're smart, they're aware, they're savvy players. I think that's what he's trying to build. I think he's trying to build a defense where they can do a lot of different things, and guys are not going to make mistakes. Look, you've been around long enough Greg to know what do defensive coaches always talk about? They want to be able to trust their players. Sometimes they may not put the best athlete on the field because another guy can go out there, and they know that he won't make mistakes. Spillane is a perfect example. He's probably a better athlete than he's given credit for but he's certainly not a big-time stud athlete, but yet he just doesn't make mistakes, and he can play in every single personnel package.
Your impressions of Milton Williams and what he can bring to the Patriots.
I've been on Milton Williams since I watched his college tape at Louisiana. I really liked him a lot. He was multi-positional in college. He was multi-positional with the Eagles. A perfect example of what we were just talking about a moment ago. You can line him up in a base five-two front, which, of course, the Eagles played as their base front. And then when they went to their pure pass, and it was a four-man D line, he fit perfectly. Now, obviously they had Jalen Carter on the other side, and most offenses slid their center to Carter, but the bottom line is, if you get a one-on-one, you have to win. That's the bottom line. And he won a lot of them this year, and people I'm sure remember the Super Bowl where he was a dominant force in that game. But I think Milton Williams is a really, really good player. I don't want to say he's just scratching the surface, because he's coming off a terrific season, but I think that he fits, to me, exactly what Mike Vrabel and company would like a guy that's multi-dimensional, multi-positional. Can play in any front. You can line them up at defensive end at times if you want. You can line them up at three-technique, 4i, one-technique, he can line up pretty much anywhere along your front and be a factor.
Marcus Epps was in Philly for a while before the Raiders for a year. What kind of safety is he?
There can be some physicality to him, but I think at his core, he's probably more of a back-end player. I would assume within the context of the players that they have. And again, we don't know how you know who's going to play in what position but my sense is just looking at their roster as we speak, you know, on Friday May 9, which, you know, hey, teams are just starting the off season programs, there's, there's a lot to happen between now and game one as you know Greg, I would think he'd not be a starting player within the context of their team, but, you know, we'll see how everything plays out. You know, there's a lot of, you know, they have a lot of depth now. I mean, I look at this defensive roster. I mean, I think Jahlani Tavai has been a really nice player for them. I don't know if he starts. Jack Gibbens was a really interesting player in Tennessee. He's long, he's athletic. You may not see him as a true starter, but you can play him snaps and he's not going to hurt you. So there's a lot of good depth. They really changed and put together a defense with a lot of sort of interchangeable, multi-dimensional players.
Anything on Landry, Tonga and Chaisson?
He's a fascinating guy, because he's the LSU kid, right? And I remember watching he was a first-round pick. I remember thinking he had a chance when he came out of LSU, and it just hasn't happened. Maybe a change of scenery ... in some ways, Landry and Chaisson, you could argue, are somewhat similar. Landry did not have a great year a year ago, which is why they let him go in Tennessee, because you don't let pass rushers go if they're really good. So he, you know, he did not have the great year. He's certainly capable. Chaisson is another guy. Chaisson never really got it going and then started to show flashes, last year in particular. So like I said, we'll see how all this plays out. We don't know the answer to that, because the bottom line is, as you well know, you got to rush the quarterback in this league. So when it gets to the pure pass situations, Mike will put the guys out there that he believes can rush the quarterback.
Offensively they signed Morgan Moses, Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins.
Look, they're o-line, this is not, you know, a profound statement, their o-line hasn't been very good the last couple of years, and Moses is just one of those solid veteran right tackles that you can line up and play with. And they needed that. They needed a veteran player on the edge who you could just, you know, feel pretty comfortable with. Diggs, we don't know what his status is. He's also older now. He's coming off a major injury. It's hard to know what he is. Hollins was really good in Buffalo. I mean, he's one of those guys. He's a special-teams player, from what I understand. He's a great team guy. I don't know if you really want him to be a starting receiver, even though he can make some plays. I guess the guy who didn't work for the previous coaching staff the way they hoped, given that he was a second-round pick, was Ja'Lynn Polk. Now when a new coaching staff comes in with a new coordinator, and obviously the new coordinator is the old coordinator, so we'll see how Josh McDaniels feels as he tries to sort of work through this receiving core. Because, everybody I would imagine, has a clean slate, even Javon Baker, the fourth-round pick a year ago. You know, we'll get to the draft picks shortly. But you know, some of these veterans, it's just hard to know exactly what they are, particularly Diggs, who's obviously a big deal they signed them to.
I mean, obviously, at his best, you know, he's a volume receiver. He's not the vertical dimension that he once was. He was never a true burner, but he had vertical ability. He may not be that guy anymore, given that he's later in his career, and then he's coming off a major knee injury, but he certainly is, you know, at his best, he certainly works the short to intermediate areas, really, really well, knows how to get open, knows how to find voids in zones, understands all these things. So we'll see, you know, but as I said, age and a pretty significant injury, it's hard to know. I mean the guy that I find really interesting, but again, everybody has a clean slate is Kayshon Boutte. I find him really interesting. We will see how it all plays out.
Where do you stand with Will Campbell and that whole discussion?
It's an interesting discussion. And again, people can say that there's no difference between 33 inches and 32 5/8s and, you know, there's two sides to these and reasonable, smart people can disagree. But the one thing that I do know is there are 64 offensive tackles in the NFL. Only four of them have arm length under 33 inches. For a lot of offensive coaches, o-line coaches, that's the delineation mark for an offensive tackle. So he's under 33 inches. Now, I think that his tape is good. It's funny when you watch tape. And I asked a former GM this question, because, you know, again, I try to learn from as many people as I can. I've been watching tape for a long time. So when I watch a player, and, you know, 90% of his tape is really good, and I thought that was the case with Campbell, because he's very controlled. He's very composed in pass protection, I thought he played with good balance, good body control. I did think he used his hands proactively and efficiently. I thought he anchored really well, and that's really important in this league, because speed to power is the number one thing that you have to be able to deal with as a tackle.
But he had a really bad game against Landon Jackson, who's now in your division, of course, with Buffalo, but he had a really bad game against Landon Jackson of Arkansas. So I asked they guys who do this ... I don't get hired and fired, fortunately, if I'm wrong, you know. But you know how you deal with it when a guy has a bad game? And there's reasons he had a bad game. That was a game where his arm length issue showed up. And I didn't get a great answer because I don't know if there is a great answer, like, you have to decide how you feel about that. But they, from everything I gather, and you're there, they're gonna play him in a left tackle, and he said, day one starter, correct? I mean, that's why ... you don't draft a guy with the fourth pick in the draft who played three years of left tackle in the SEC not to make him your starting left tackle. My guess is he'll be good, but there might be times where he has some bad snaps, where it shows up. But you know, he's a really solid player. I made it a point to listen to him speak at the podium at the combine. He's an impressive kid. You know, I really liked his whole manner. I mean, you could tell that, you know, he's just, he's just one of those guys that you want in your O line room. So, you know, clearly, I mean, we talked about Morgan Moses at right tackle. They'll be better at the tackle position. I think Campbell will be good, like I said, but I think people shouldn't be surprised if he has some bad snaps here and there, just because it's going to be an issue somewhere along the line. Now, when I say be an issue, I don't mean it's going to be an issue where it can't play, but it'll be an issue on certain reps.
Second round pick, TreVeyon Henderson, the running back out of Ohio State.
One of my favorite guys in the draft. And you know why he was one of my favorite guys, and I guarantee for Mike Vrabel, this meant something, and it might have meant a lot. I thought he was the best pass protection back in the draft, hands down. This guy is a man when it comes to pass protection, and we all know he's explosive. I mean, it's funny. I came away watching him, and this might be crazy. You'll remember this because you've been around for a few years, like I have. Maybe younger fans won't remember this. I came away feeling that they were kind of shades of Brian Westbrook in his game because he's explosive. He's a very good receiver. There's a physicality to the way he plays. You can watch him in pass protection. And I'm trying to remember, I'm going to pull out my notes, because I think I made a note of it. Let's see. Oh, it was against Kobe King of Penn State, who, I believe, was drafted. And there were times he just put him on the ground in pass protection. And, you know, he also on a Will Howard-designed run, he laid out Jaylen Reed, who's a safety who was drafted for Penn State. I mean, I guarantee that that was one reason they drafted him. Obviously, he's explosive. He can take it to the house on any given play. And he's a very good receiver. So he's a complete player. But he's a man. And, you know, I think Vrabel's trying to create you look, you know Mike, you know what kind of guy is. I mean, he's trying to create an atmosphere of toughness, competitiveness, take no prisoners, you know. And Henderson is that guy.
Henderson with McDaniels, does he fit their traditional third-down back?
I think he can do that absolutely. And I think because of the pass protection, you're going to feel comfortable doing that, because teams are going to test not only Henderson, if it's third down, but of course they're still going to test Drake Maye, he's only a second year player. So yes, I think that that was a major factor in why he was drafted. I mean, I personally thought that he was drafted - and again, I don't do mock drafts, I don't do lists, but I didn't and I never used the word reach. If you say a team reached, then basically what you're saying is you're smarter than the 35 people that work for the organization that do this for a living. So I don't do that, you know? But to me, Henderson was drafted where I felt where should have been drafted. I think he was a really good prospect. And I even thought if he was late first round, I thought that would have been okay too, but I think he's, you know, and from what I gather from people that I've spoken to, he's an unbelievable kid, too, from what I gather like, he's the kind of guy you want on your team.
Part 2 to come on the rest of the draft picks.
